Girlfriend's guy friend

awright. I'll admit up front I was a little jealous (but I tried not to show it). My girlfriend of 3 months and I went with a group outing with her friends and her sister to a ballgame this past Friday. One of the 3 people she brought (besides her female friend and me) was a guy friend she works with. She's known the guy (I'll call him John) for over 5 years, they went to graduate school together, and she helped get him the job at her company.

Well, I never would have thought anything of this guy (she's only mentioned him once or twice in the 3 months we've been dating) except for how she acted with him at the game, and how she talked about him afterwards to me and her girlfriend.

During the game, he sat on one side of her and I was on the other. She was talking with him quite a bit, which was fine, but I eventually picked up that she was subtly flirting with him right there in front of me - touching him frequently while she talked for instance. She only does that when she's flirting with a guy -- they also had some verbal flirtations going on under the radar screen so to speak, and I detected some 'tension' between them I hate to say it, of the sexual type. he seemed to have his knee against hers at a couple instances too. Also, on multiple multiple times (and I hated it), he would cut into my gf's and my conversation, and she would acknowledge him and immediately then start talking with him...I had sort of a sick feeling in my stomach as they flirted right there in front of me...

We were then going to a second ball game afterwards, and she invited him to join the group repeatedly, but he had other plans. He left and as my girlfriend, her female friend, and I walked to catch the bus, my girlfriend asked quite excitedly what we thought of him. We said 'nice', 'social', etc..My girlfriend then asked if we thought he was gay, b/c she thought while they were in graduate school that he might be gay....I said no, I definitely didn't think that he was gay...

Then, later on at the second ball game, my girlfriend brought his name up in conversation again, referring to him as "Ohh, that John....." almost wooingly or something....

I know she's not cheating on me, but there was definitely something there between the two of them...

Do I bring this up with her? I don't want to look like the jealous boyfriend, and I also don't want to verbalize or put it out there that I noticed something there between the two of them. But I hate how she did that all during the game right in front of me - the whole incident is making me re-think that I should start to do some minor 'gaming' of other girls RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER on an on-going basis (or at least TELL her a story about the girl I was talking with at Starbucks!!) Out of respect for her and b/c "she's my girl", I haven't been initiating conversations with girls I don't know, when I'm out in public with her....

Thanks,

elespanol

Do the opposite of your natural reaction

El Espanol,
Is this the girl with the "alcohol problem"? I want to ask how that worked out, but I guess I know now. So you decided to make a commitment.

First, just like you have to assume all girls like you, you have to assume that this type of guy is trying to move in on your girl. If you keep your guard down or deny it, he'll do it.

He's characterizing AMOG behavior--"Alpha Male-ing the Other Guy," which is what AMOGs do to unsuspecting AFCs. You have to AMOG him back (more on this in a sec).

Don't confront your g/f about it. It will make you look jealous and needy. Do not, I repeat DO NOT flirt with other girls in front of her (intentionally, at least). Any girl can tell you that TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT. You have to appear like the good, faithful guy and use that as leverage. It makes you look good, she looks like the bad one, and remember, what do we do to bad behavior? We don't reward it.

What you plan of action should be is "inaction." You have to pretend that you don't care. That you're indifferent towards losing her. One of these ways is by Alpha Male-ing the Other Guy. So for example, if he was talking to your girl while touching her knees, you can say "You two make a good couple" or "If I buy you tickets to the Coldplay concert will you take her for me and get her out of my hands." But don't say it in a dick way, always, always, in a playful way.

Why act indifferent? Because you're the prize, not her. If she wants to ruin a good relationship with you, that's her loss. That's her punishment for bad behavior. Her bluffs won't faze you. She will wonder, why doesn't he desire me anymore? Then try to please you again. Besides, you can always find someone else. Second besides, the stuff you reported about her in the Lounge, doesn't warrant her having you anyway.

Jay Olie Espy

Good stuff, man. Especially a playfully-said "You two make a good couple" - man that would diffuse a lot of the situation, bring it out into the open, while at the same time demonstrating total indifference. It's kind of like, once you name something, it loses the power it had while it was unsaid. Great.

So, what are some other ways to AMOG the guy who's hitting on your girlfriend??? Would be interested in hearing people's experiences....Here's one I'll throw out, something I did recently - I was at a bar with my girlfriend and her female friend after dinner about two weeks ago, and these two guys came up to us. One guy was trying to engage my girlfriend in conversation, he started to tell her a story, and I just kept cutting him off and asking him a barage of logical questions in succession - So where ya from man? then he would answer. then I'd follow w/ Is that far from here?...and...what'd ya study in school? what do you do for work? do you have a long commute? and on and on and on...It was great, I could see him actually shut down at one point and he literally turned away from me after several questions and put his back to me, my girlfriend lost interest in what he had opened up with, and he then started talking with/hitting on my girlfriend's friend. I would definitely use that one again...

Jay Olie Espy, yes, this is the same girl I wrote about in the lounge...your post was awesome, the one about how to bring up the topic with her...well, just right before last weekend, I went to her place and had the talk....it felt good to just get it all off my chest....anyhow, since the time of the incident that I wrote about in the lounge, she has seemed to keep the drinking in check when we're TOGETHER, but I pointed out to her the nights/events that she was drunk when she was NOT with me. she didn't take that that well initially....sort of like, she's single and she's out w/ her friends, so she can stay out late and keep drinking...I'll have to see how this all goes down and how it goes w/ her...

About 4 or 5 days before having this talk w/ her, we were having sex and she was actually the first to utter the 'L' word....I didn't say it back right away, but I said it back later....then, I knew I had to have the drinking talk w/ her very soon....SOOOO, we'll see what happens....

elespanol

J O E, GREAT belief system. That comes WAY before the process of creating attraction. LOVE it. (NS just purchased ; - ) NYC ladies awaits lol.

Elespanol. Never take womens' disrespect. I think of it as shes disrespecting me so im going to let her know. HOWEVER you let her know is the key, just make sure she knows. This underscores your Alpha-nes i guess you can say. She probably would WANT you to "put her in her place" because shes disrespecting you (tests). She doesnt want a doormat Think of it as molding a girl's respect towards you.

You are not like other guys that let women walk all over you (wussy UNattractive behavior). You are the prize to be won, make them earn it and they'll LOVE it.

I have been in a relationship with a girl for 6 mothins now. VERY laid back, its gnenerally we like each other, but we're really chill about it. Very laid back.

We all went a the bar, and her and another dude, made eye contact. They both smiled. I catch this. I go up to her and say, "hey finish that drink he might buy you ANOTHER one lol."

Not this is what NOT to do, Jesse? I mean i probably could have done NOghint and kept talking to other girls. Probably next time just ignore it?

Thanks,
Jobe

My 200th post

El Espanol:
That is a very good way to AMOG.

I'm a little dubious about your gf's behavior: she controls her drinking around you, but doesn't when you're away? That's still not the behavior you want to tolerate. She's pretty much sweeping the dirt under the rug when you're around. I don't have a solution to that, other than, again, don't reward her bad behavior when she drinks. I say if she gets blasted with her girls and she wants you to go pick her up at the club, I'd say no. Think about it, if you did, you'd reinforce her behavior.

Jesse:
What do you mean by "you can minimize their time together?" Do you mean that if she asks, "Let's go to another game with my friend John," Espanol should say, "Naw, I was thinking we'd go dancing again." Or do you mean that he should be telling her who she can or cannot hang out with? That would be controlling and in my eyes AFC behavior. Could you elaborate a little more on what you meant?

And yes! Mild flirting is what I meant to say!

Jobe:
What you did was awesome! You showed her that you caught her, but you made yourself very secure--secure in your relationship and with yourself, i.e. no one's going to take your girl away. Also, any AFC would've tripped out on that--checkit--sometimes smiling back is a natural, friendly reaction even without attraction attached to it. If you were an AFC who saw that and tripped on her girl, she'd think you were a jealous, insecure guy making a mountain out of a mole hill or otherwise known as--an average frustrated chump. Good call.

J O E

Jesse,

My question is, if you pick up a girl or are on a first date, and some guy tries to hit on her or steal her, by either flirting or talking to her, what should your reaction be?

The same as above?

I guess the advice was meant if you're already in an LTR, right? Is it different if you two just met?

Thanks J O E. I thought that was probably the best thing I could do. I ended up hooking up with her that night ; - ) LOL.

Shes a very beautiful girl. So I caught a couple guys looking at her. I could read their body language; "wow shes hot . . . do i keep looking at her or stop drooling" LOL. She just stood there on the side with me.

There was ANOTHER girl in the group. She was talking about a broadway show shes working on and how the main character is a man whore. She went into detail about how hes so smooth with the ladies. Then she looks at me a says

"It reminds me of you."

Me: "what did you say?" (i knew what she said but "my" girl was standing RIGHT next to her listening in. The other girl doesnt really know about us LOL.

Other girl: "It reminds me of you."

Me: : - ) really . . . Then i look at "my" girl and shes looking at me like "i wanna sex you up because this girls wants you too"

J O E, these NYC girls LOVE it. Should stop by soon lol.

have fun creating attraction,
Jobe

Thanks, Jesse. Great points.

fuck damn shit

Fuck, Damn, shit, why didn't any one tell me about this. God this happened to me today.

I was at work my friend(we arnt togther but she was way jealouse of me last time when I was flirting with another babe) this time I hug a friend or mine(very cute girl) then this dude comes in alte for work and of course he looks at my friend and they basically start to flirt( I didn't know any better so i came of as being a dick when I said somethignto her about it) She denied she was flirting then showed me what her flirting was

I had that tiny jeaoulesy thing that itty bitty feeling, it lasted about a second then it turned into severe rage I almost had to leave some one was going to die( I dont get angry but when I do its EVIL, I cant describe it) Took a deep breathe and ignored it. Now I realized I ahve gotten over the jealouse thing very fast. That itty bitty feeling you got man was your nervousness about not being able to defend your women. Thats becasue you had no idea how to in a slick way. Now you do and so Do I thank you guys. Oh yeah your girlfriend probably got fucked in some way by this guy very early on in their "friendship" they were probably drunk.
This is going to sound harsh. A good friend to a women means they have higher value then a boyfriend( its gotta be true)
A friend will always be there but a lover(bf) wont, you see it. Use it.



Trust me on this.

Things have been going great b/t me and my gf (the drinking has subsided considerably, and we've had several open discussions about it, and she has agreed to change all her behavior around and with alcohol), and this weekend she asked me how I truly felt and where I saw the relationship going. I told her that if things kept going well, that I could see us advancing the relationship some time next year (meaning moving towards getting engaged, I'm 36 y/o and she's 30). She responded very well, saying she was so glad we found each other, I was the best thing that has happened to her, etc.....

We're talking about spending an extended amount of time overseas a year and a half from now, in a Spanish speaking country that I used to live in and that she has always wanted to live in. we would go for about a year and it would entail giving up our jobs here as well as would require a lot of work in order to find jobs there. YET - this one guy friend of hers keeps coming up!! - the day after we discussed our initial plans for going overseas, she made the comment, "who would she rent her condominium to while we're gone??" she answered her own question, saying her best girlfriend 'L' could rent it, or her cousin (she would trust them with her belongings and her place)... then she said, 'or John could rent it, he's very anal...' "John" is the guy I wrote about in this first thread! I couldn't believe she suggested renting her place to him, especially since that would then require on-going contact with him while she and I potentially live overseas.

Based on the advice here, I've never said anything about "John" to her and how she acted with him the first time I met him at the baseball game last month. I REALLY WANT TO ASK HER WHAT THE DEAL WITH HIM IS, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE"RE TALKING ABOUT AND MAKING LONG TERMS PLANS WITH THE RELATIONSHIP. Do you guys really think that's still a bad idea? It kills me when I think about it. I don't want to get played for the fool here. If she really wants to be with him, I'd rather know that now, than after I invest even more time, emotions, and energy in this relationship. Also, since going overseas is not for another year and a half, we would probably be engaged when we go.

SHOULD I QUESTION HER (either indirectly or directly) ABOUT THIS GUY FRIEND OF HERS????? I just feel like more due diligence is needed in this relationship if I'm going to take it further with her, since this guy is still in her life, they work in the same office too.

Thoughts?

Ask

elespanol,
I'm glad to read that your relationship with this girl is advancing in a positive direction.

The original advice we gave you regarding John would work if he were just a "minor issue"--some guy who popped in and out. But I feel because you and your lady are advancing a whole lot--living overseas--this is a guy that you definitely want out of the picture, out of your lives, sort to speak.

I say do ask her what's up between her and him, since he's so "important" to her in her life, and it looks like they'll remain in contact. Tell her, "I see this John is important to you. Why's that?"

Keep in mind however, she seems to be committing to you and not him. So don't seem jealous. You don't want her to throw this in your face:

"You jerk! If I were in love with him, I wouldn't be with you, would I?!"

Everyone's girlfriend/wife will have this other man in their lives that will drive us nuts. Hey, he could just be a cool friend she can connect with.

So yeah, ask, but don't go berzerk.

J O E

Damn, that's awesome stuff J O E, awesome stuff.

Thanks.

Changes?

You're welcome, elespanol. I just hope this betters and strengthens your relationship with her and doesn't wreck it!

You do seem to want to settle down, I hope you find the right girl for you. I really wish I can meet you and this girl, so I could give you my impression of her. After your last big post, I hope you don't just want to marry this girl because "you're getting up there in age." Please tell me it's because she will make you grow as a person.

What is still making me dubious about your relationship with her is her drinking. You mention she's cutting down, and I'm happy to hear that. I just hope for your sake it's permanent. Empirical evidence has shown that no one makes changes for anyone but themselves. I don't have an answer as to how to annihilate bad habits in a person. But if I could give you a recommendation, go find a self-book on "changing" or "drinking excessively." There's plenty out there. Maybe that'll give you more of a perspective if whether or not the drinking will be a problem in your relationship.

hey J O E, yeah if you're ever in the midwest or if I'm ever out west, we'll have to meet up...

i'll get to your point about the drinking and changing for one's self soon, but I want to relay this...

last nite I, g/f, and her female friend went to dinner...again, she brought up her friend John....it was weird how she segued into bringing him up, and I saw it coming...her friend was talking about someone's girlfriend, and said she was 27 y/o...my g/f a couple seconds later said, 'how old was she, 21?' (and I knew she was going to segue into talking about John, b/c John just started dating a 21 year old!!) sure enough, the next comment from my g/f was, "my friend John is dating a 21 year old"...then my g/f added for the first time: "John used to have a little crush on me...."

ok, that was news to me, but I wasn't surprised............

fastforward to later that nite at my g/f's place. I tried to be cool, but I felt and probably looked, uncomfortable saying it but I said, what's the name of that guy again who came to the baseball game with us? g/f: oh, that's John (she looked really uncomfortable). me: he seems important to you, why is that? (and I know that I had an uncomfortable look on my face, I could feel it.) my g/f looked back at me really uncomfortably. I don't know if that's because I looked uncomfortable, or if b/c she has something to hide.

me: so he had a crush on you, you said at dinner? her: oh, should I not have told you that?

me: that's ok, you can tell me stuff like that. but, you had wondered out loud a couple times to me and your friends whether John were gay, so how could he be gay and also have a crush on you? it doesn't make sense what you're saying.

her: no, it's just that he's got more feminine qualities and I'm more of a tomboy. I got him his job at XYZ (the company she works at).

me: how come you wanted him to live in your place if we go overseas?

her: he's in the suburbs now, so he could live in the city and he's anal so he would take care of my place.

her: John annoys me. (long pause) I just wish him well with his life (his fiance cut off their engagement a year or so ago). don't you have female friends that you wish well?

me: yes of course.

J O E - on paper it seems ok, but when she was saying all this it just seemed like she was trying to cover up something, some of the things she said seemed disjointed, or long pauses or whatever. there was no quick, "Oh we're just good friends, I enjoy his company, etc. etc." no reassuring laugh that "I was being silly or ridiculous and that they were just friends," you know? I don't care so much if there's a history there - a one nighter or whatever - we all have that - or even if they dated, that's in the past I don't care. But if she has feelings for him right now, that's a different story in my book.

Basically, I'm not satisfied w/ her answer last nite. Do I bring it up again from a different angle? Or do I try to erase from my mind how I saw them acting at the baseball game (or at least, erase how it affected me) and all the things she has said about him?



Elespanol

oh - her full comment was that "John and Bob (guy friend of hers) are my only two single male friends, so I like hearing about their lives and I wish them well."

again, in fairness to her, she may have looked uncomfortable in the beginning of the talk because of how I looked as I brought the conversation up, uncomfortable.

Regroup

Elespanol,

Dude I have been in a very similar situation. I got a very bad vibe from your original post about your girl's behavior.

In my opinion, I think they do have some kind of connection, but your actions will determine the outcome of what will happen. I think it was good to confront her lightly although her answers just led to more worry.

My advice: You need to regroup and get back in to "control". Try to loose focus on this guy and the possibilities of what has happened or what could happen. None of that matters, but can drive you nuts and just leads to more problems and the next thing you know you will only be focused on the problem. SO DROP IT! dont think about it. I know exactly what your dealing with. Dont even let this stuff enter your mind. You want your relationship and your g/f to revolve around you, not this guy or your g/f. Women need to be gently guided by men. Focus on your goals of the relationship and where you want it to go and simply lead her. She will follow. BTW you will never figure it out.

Good luck!

The story of Lorena and Me

elespanol,
When I was 19, I worked with this girl whom I later fell in love with. Problem was (do I see a pattern here?) was that she had a boyfriend. Now if I was an AFC, this guys was an EBC (extrememly boring chump). Maria and I developed a very close relationship: we hung out all the time (movies, parties, lunches, dinner), we opened up to each other, one time she pecked me on the lips as I spent the night in her dorm room. In two words, what we had was an emotional affair.

Everyone knew there was "something" going on between us. People were betting that she would break-up with her bf, people were telling her to do it. Hell, her boyfriend knew something was fishy, but because he was so AFC, he never really confronted her about it on an alpha level, or me.

Lorena and I never ended up together, on top of that she ended up marrying that AFC. Lorena and I, and even AFC at some level, are still friends. Even now, should I send Lorena a b-day card, or an e-mail, or even a phone, should AFC get jealous over it? Heck no!

Why she didn't break up with him and get with me, I don't know. The point is that I tried, as much as an AFC could, and even when things were looking good, she still stuck with her man. Sometimes, elespanol, you have to have a little faith in your woman. I know that this 19yo is not the same as your 30yo, but this is about having faith in your woman's loyalty.

I half agree with rudce71. I agree that you shouldn't let this drive you crazy and make it ruin your relationship. I don't agree that you should ignore his presence in your life, not now at least. Each time she brings up John, ask a little bit more about him.

Her: John is going out with that girl again.
EE: Oh yeah, so what's he like about her?...Do you think this will be serious? ...Is he looking for someone?....

Just say it in a friendly, "what concerns you, concerns me" way. Acknowledge that you're not going to get chumped by this guy, that your radar's up.

Your situation is so complex. You've got her former drinking behavior, what more is your age. Sometimes you come across like you HAVE to marry this girl cuz you're "getting up there in age." You love her, that's great. Enjoy your time together. But if it doesn't work out, if you find out she's not the ONE, there will be others. And you have the skills and techniques to find them quicker.

Keep us posted.

J O E

ok, I didn't know you guys had responded in over a week until I logged in. long story short - good advice: I'm not going to bring up John again, but if she talks about him, I'm going to inquire about him in a concerned way...good stuff.

Have you guys been with a girl like this - she just drives me crazy sometimes, like infuriates me at times with what she says or does. I don't know if it's that she has this ever-slight edge to her or a real little bit of bad-girl-ness to her (not in a major way, but it is there at times), or what...but I find myself getting pissed at her, and I need to change that about how I'm viewing things with her or I'm going to drive myself crazy.

Case in point. we've been dating for 5 months now. 'L' word has been exchanged. over time we've started to spend more and more time together. we've met each other's family. Sometimes though - it's like she's trying to 'manage' the amount of time we spend together, downward. She'll let me know that come Saturday morning, she's gotta do 'XYZ' - run errands, clean her place, do some work (she's got a high powered consultant job with somewhat long hours) or whatever, and it's like she wants to bolt b/c she doesn't want to spend too much time together. And a lot of times we start to get "close" - and she'll push me away, either non-verbally, or emotionally or whatever. or make an indirect mean comment or something. you guys know what I'm talking about? or like on a weeknight, which is ideal sometimes to just 'hang out' for a couple hours and then go to sleep together (not really a date per se), sometimes she'll cancel b/c she says she has to do work and stay up late, then the next day I find out she went to bed early (so we actually could have hung out). so I get frustrated b/c it seems the relationship's not a priority.

For me, over time, I started to put her first as a priority. And maybe I've started to hang out with my friends less since she and I have gotten more serious. To correct how she's sort of treating me, maybe I just need to start scheduling things with my friends first, or take a night class, or whatever, so as to make her start initiating making plans and wanting to do things together. And tell her, ok, Saturday I'm going out with just the guys. And maybe let her call me first during a given day (although she often is the first one to call the other). It's a challenge though sometimes - in a serious relationship, sometimes you just want to pick up the phone b/c you heard something that reminded you of something the two of you talked about or whatever, and just talk for 1 minute - but I find that if or when I do something like that, she starts to "freak" out, or pull back, or get cold then... she once told me that I'm the first guy that doesn't make her feel like 'she can't breathe'....

how should I handle this, do my own sort of pulling back in certain ways?

Thanks,

elespanol