Should You Pay On A First Date? It Depends, Here’s Why…

I want to touch on the subject of whether you should pay on dates.

Now the normal society cultural conditioning answer is that you must be the gentleman. You must always pay for the girl on the first date.

In response came the pickup community’s response, which was “Never pay on the first date. That’s supplication! You’re putting the girl up on a pedestal. She’s going to take advantage of you. You have to knock those bitches off the pedestal and show to them who’s boss. Even if it’s $2.99 cup of coffee, do not pay. Make that bitch pay or make her pay for you. Flip the script on her.”

Now, I think the actual best answer is a little bit more subtle than either of those responses. I’m going to give that answer to you right now in this video.

Okay, so the first core basic rule of first dates is that you do not want to take the girl on an expensive date let’s say in an expensive restaurant where it’s going to cost $50 for you and $50 for the girl. There’s two very good reasons not to take girls on expensive first dates.

The first one is that they often make the girl feel uncomfortable. Because when you take a girl to an expensive restaurant, she might feel indebted to you like she owes you something afterwards maybe a kiss on a cheek, or going on a second date with you, or maybe she might be thinking you are thinking about sexual favors or something.

It’s kind of like when you’re the boss of a company. Let’s say you just run an auto company or an auto shop, and you need to hire a new mechanic and there was this guy putting in his resume.

He really wasn’t qualified for the job, but he said, “Okay. Just come out. I’m going to take you to lunch and I want to show you what I can really do. Just give me a second chance and I’ll take you to lunch and prove myself to you.”

You go to lunch with the guy, and he takes you to the Hilton that costs $60 a person this lunch.

Well, you have lunch with the guy and you’re still like, “Okay. You’re still not qualified. I do not want to hire him, but this is an unemployed mechanic. He probably can’t be paying $50 or $60 for our lunches each.”

You’re going to feel guilty now about shooing him away. You’re going to feel uncomfortable. You’re going to feel like you owe him something, so you don’t want to put the girl into that position.

Now there are some girls, usually like the really, really hot girls that are used to having male orbiters and beta guys pay things for them. They’re kind of used to just going to expensive lunches and dinners and taking advantage of the guy. They don’t even blink twice about it.

If you take that kind of girl to an expensive dinner, now you’re just another one of those friendly guys that will just pay for anything she asks for. She’s going to walk all over you and she’s going to see you as kind of a chomp or a sucker. Either scenario whether the girl takes advantage of you, whether you’re making the girl uncomfortable, you don’t want that to happen.

Now the second reason you don’t want that to take girls on an expensive first date is because it’s just coming from the wrong frame. You are seeing the girl up here in value and you are down here in value, and you are thinking that you’ve got to impress this girl to make her like you.

You’ve got to show her that you are a sex-worthy guy because she’s above you and you are putting the girl into the frame of being the buyer, somebody who is deciding whether or not they want to buy you and you are selling yourself to the girl, which is not a good frame at all.

Really you want to flip the script on that where you are the buyer. You are deciding whether you want this girl, and she is selling herself to you where she is chasing you. That’s the frame that you want to set up.

There’s many different ways to do that. I don’t want to go into them in this video because it’s a little more detailed and involved, but basically if you are paying for an expensive date with a girl, and you don’t know anything about this girl except that she’s pretty, but you don’t know if she’s a psycho.

You don’t know if she has bad PMS. You don’t know if she’s mentally stupid. You don’t know anything about her and she feels like you are just paying for her because you think that she’s pretty. You’re just coming from the completely wrong frame. She’s going to see that as needy. She’s going to feel like she’s better than you or there’s just something off. It’s not proper male-to-female like what should normally be happening.

Basically a girl is not attracted to the guy that she picks out among different guys. A girl is attracted to the guy that she has to chase for. A girl is attracted to the guy that she feels like is picking her. If she feels like there is this frame where you were the buyer and she’s trying to sell herself to you, that’s what the girl wants because that’s the kind of man she is going to be attracted to.

She wants to feel like she had to chase and win you over against all the other girls out there. She won you against all the other competition. An expensive dinner is just going to set the wrong frame right from the beginning, so you don’t want that expensive dinner situation.

There’s actually an exception to this rule. Let’s say that you just like to go to expensive dinners as part of your habit, part of your weekly routine, and it’s something that you for yourself. It’s something that you do anyway whether the girl was there or not. It’s like your personal hobby.

Maybe your food is your personal passion. You like to explore new restaurants and new tastes, and you can talk about that kind of thing in conversation, then it’s perfectly okay to bring a girl along for the ride. Doing something you’d be normally be doing anyway, the expenses like $50 a person is not a big deal to you, a drop in the bucket to you financially. You’re not going out of your way to impress a girl over this.

You’ll kind of like bring her into your world. You are expressing your true personality. You are expressing your true self to the girl through food, through maybe you know some of the chefs, maybe you know some of the waiters at some of these expensive restaurants.

It’s just like what you really enjoy doing, and it’s not there to just put the girl up on a pedestal, but you are actually still holding yourself on the pedestal. It’s still like that self-narcissism where you are numero uno and you are still qualifying the girl.

Maybe you can qualify the girl in if you want to see if she likes different foods, maybe you take her to like a fancy French restaurant that you really like. You want to see how she reacts to the food and you’re qualifying her. You are screening her. She has to chase for you. She has to chase to get your approval, then it can be totally cool to bring a girl to an expensive restaurant.

Likewise if you have a very expensive hobby, I can’t really think of any but maybe if you like to go skiing or something. You’re always skiing and you want to bring the girl skiing with you, and she likes the idea of going skiing and it costs $100 to rent the skis, and it’s something you do anyway in expression of yourself. Going skiing can be perfectly cool because it’s not out of your ordinary day reality. Then it’s perfectly acceptable.

However, most guys if you want to just play it safe, the trick is to take the girl to an inexpensive first date or it can even be a free first date, for example going to the park. I personally like parks a lot because I feel really relaxed in parks. I feel very comfortable in parks. It’s a way for me to screen the girl if she likes parks, too.

I like to bring the girl behind. I grab her by the hand, pull her behind a tree, kiss her a little, then we’ll walk. Then I’ll grab her by the hand, pull her behind a tree, kiss her more. Maybe I’ll kiss [unintelligible 0:07:37] roll on the grass, a little kiss. I want to see if she’s fun that way.

Of course, if you don’t know like parks, if you’re like a vampire, you don’t want the daylight, then you don’t want to take a girl to the park. But you want to bring her to something that you naturally enjoy doing.

A coffee shop is another really great place to bring a girl. This may only cost $5 to $10 a person. It’s climate controlled inside. The girl has probably been in a coffee shop before. It’s a comfortable environment to her. You are drinking maybe something sweet, some calories. She’s going to feel really relaxed. You can sit right next to her. You can massage her hands. You can touch her leg underneath.

The number 1 criteria for choosing an inexpensive date is that you want to choose a place that is very close to your isolation point. Your isolation point would be like your apartment or your house for example.

If you can walk from the first date location whether it’s a park or a café, you can do a 5-minute walk to your apartment, that’s awesome because really the idea of the first date is you want to make her comfortable ‑ laughing, having fun, physical connection, emotional connection.

Then you want to say, “Hey, I want to show you some cool stuff on my computer. It’s just a 5-minute walk from here.”

Then you can just kind of bring her up and isolate her and then you can kiss. A girl is going to go a lot more burrow with you if there are aren’t other people watching, so that’s the whole point is to isolate the girl.

You don’t want to take a girl to the zoo if the zoo is a 1-hour drive away from you because if you’re hitting it off and things are going great, you can’t be like, “Hey! Let’s go back to my place. I’m going to show you some photos on my computer. It’s just a one-hour drive.” She’s not like going to do that.

It should be like a 15- or 20-minute drive away at the max, but really even better a 5-minute drive or even better, a 5-minute walk.

I would argue that what you’re doing on the first date is not so important as compared to how close it is to your isolation point. It’s something you got to keep in mind.

The question comes back to you are you going to pay for that first date even if it’s a $5 or $10 or $20 bill if it’s an inexpensive date.

Well [unintelligible 0:09:44] the pickup community of course was, “Even if it’s $5, do not pay for her. We’re going to knock these women off their pedestals.” It was coming from this fame of wanting to get revenge on girls, or that we’re going to show girls who’s boss, so we’re not going to follow the social conditioning of society.

Really what I do though is if it’s a cheap date, and I invited the girl out, I’m always going to pay for that first date whether it’s $5 or $10 or $20 and not make a big deal out of it.

Now there’s a couple of benefits to this. First of all, it’s just one less bullshit thing you’ve got to worry about; otherwise you’re thinking, “Okay, you go to the coffee shop. Should I pay? Should I ask her to split it? If I ask her to split it, how she’s going to respond? Will she respond negatively? Will she come to think I’m not a gentleman?”

If I just assume I’m going to pay, it’s no big deal. It’s such a small amount. I mean really if it’s $5, $10, or $20, you’re not going to make the girl feel uncomfortable. She’s not going to feel like she owes you anything. It’s just a small amount. She’s not going to feel like you are putting her on a pedestal because you spent $5 on her, so it’s perfectly acceptable to pay a little bit of money and it solves that problem about what you’re going to do just by assuming that you’re going to pay.

Now the key is to always be going with the flow. You don’t want to make a big deal out of money so that she won’t feel like it’s a big deal. You want to be completely comfortable in whatever you’re doing so the girl is completely comfortable.

If she’s insisting that she wants to split the bill down the middle, then you want to be perfectly cool with that. You don’t want to fight with her. You don’t even want to insist that you have to pay it all. Just let her split the bill down the middle.

The key with money is to completely go with the flow. If it’s a small amount, you just pay it. It’s perfectly cool. If she brings up that she wants to split it, and she insists on splitting it. Some girls will insist. You just go with the flow. You let her split, and same thing with going with the flow and not making a big deal. Same principle. You don’t want to be spending a lot of money throwing it up at everybody’s faces either. That’s not going with the flow either.

Small amounts. You just assume you’ll pay, and if the girl has a different thing in mind, then just go with whatever the girl wants to do. Go with the flow in terms of cash and money on the first date.

Let’s say even despite all that, you still don’t want to pay for the girl. It’s a big deal to you. Well, my first piece of advice is maybe you should make more money because if you’re making more money, spending $5, or $10, or $15 on the girl is simply not going to feel like a big deal.

But let’s say that you’re broke, broke, broke. There’s no way around that, and broke guys still want to date girls, too. An easy solution is to just to go with the flow on the first date, assume that you’re going to pay but you can tell the girl as you’re paying, “Okay. I’m going to get this one, and then you can get the next one.”

In that way, assuming that two dates happen, it’s kind of like you’re splitting the bill between the two of you and between the average. You’re not paying for the girl, and you keep that money in your pocket.

Just to recap everything, because I want to wrap this up. Don’t take a girl on expensive date. That’s the number 1 rule because it’s going to make the girl feel uncomfortable or she’s going to feel like she can take advantage of you. It’s also coming from the wrong frame where you are putting the girl on a pedestal and you are making her the buyer who is – you’re trying to sell yourself to the girl and you’re qualifying yourself to the girl when you want the exact opposite of that.

The only exception about taking girls on expensive dates is if it’s already you whatever you want to take her on a date, whatever activity that is, it’s already part of your lifestyle like if you’re going to expensive restaurants every week anyway. You’re just taking the girl along for the ride and bringing her into your world, then it’s perfectly acceptable.

Normally though, you want to go on free and inexpensive dates ideally a place where you can physical easily with the girl. You can talk with the girl, communicate with her, express yourself, and the place that is very near your point of isolation like your apartment. It could be a park. It could be a zoo. It could be a coffee shop. It could even be a bar really.

Any of those things are fine. A lot of times some money will be spent ‑ $5, $10, $15, $20. Just go with the flow with money. Don’t cause resistance. Just make things simple for yourself, assume that you’re going to pay.

Along with going off with the flow, though if he girl insists on splitting, just go with that. That’s perfectly cool.

If you’re completely broke, if it’s still bothering you that you have to pay, then just say that okay, I’m going to pay this time to go with the flow on the first date. You pay next time, and that way between the two dates, it will average out as if you didn’t pay for the girl. But you’re still going to look like you’re basically the gentleman who is everything is fair on the first date.

13 thoughts on “Should You Pay On A First Date? It Depends, Here’s Why…”

  1. Sorry – I listened to the very end (comment below)… and a agree that cheaper dates are best. But you still want to be kind and make her feel special. Like a hike with some wine. When I date a do the same for the guy. Someone unwilling to pay or extend themselves is not attractive. And it should come from the man first.

  2. You’re coming across as a big looser who is now trying to overcompensate in the other direction. Why would i want to date a guy that isn’t caring caring and doesn’t treat me right?

  3. I’m advocate for simple dates where you can get to know the girl instead of getting distracted by too many date details.

  4. What if she orders the most expensive thing on the menu? Once I took a very hot girl to a Starbucks and she ordered a big sandwich and the biggest caramel late with whipped cream. Like 20$, not like the money mattered but her action. We are supposed to meet each other; that is why we just go for a coffee not for a lunch. I doubted a little about what to do as she finished talking to the starbucks guy. I decided to test her; I just paid my small coffee and told the starbucks guy she would pay for what she ordered. She then gave me a freezing stare and said something like “Im sorry, I thought you were inviting me” She said this with a loud voice as if trying to publicly shame me. I calmly replied “Well, I said just a coffee. But if you want to eat I don’t mind” She attempted to create a scene “Oh no. Im a foreign a student, I cannot afford these things.” People were lining up and looking at us as we discussed. At this point I had already made my mind about her and since I had payed for my coffee, I ejected “Look, I will be waiting for you at that table” I walked over to a table near the exit. From afar, I saw her calling somebody with her cell phone (latest iphone btw) and a couple of minutes later she headed to the exit without looking at me with her head high. Good bye, good riddance.

  5. I honestly don’t mind going 50/50 on a first date but it does unfortunately kill attraction. I think if you turn it around, it’s a bit like if a woman turned up on her first date having made little to no effort in her appearance. The first date is like an interview and you naturally want to make the best impression whilst not going OTT.

  6. If ever a guy didnt pay for me on our first date, I would never go out on a 2nd date with him…
    Cheap , and I wouldnt waste another second with a cheapo

  7. i usually pay – i’ve gone dutch before on a first date i think it actually kills comfort
    on the other hand i think sharing who pays for the date is totally acceptable if you are in a relationship or at least FWB

  8. basically i agree on what you’ve said. However there are girls who request you to pay for them or buy them something, in that case you should never do that

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